The latest episode of The Skin Wellness Pro Show features a very special guest, our wonderful Advisory Board member, Jackie Johnson! Jackie is not only a Holistic Brand Strategist, but is also an advocate for spreading love, positivity, and encouragement to all those around her. Rachael and Tara were thrilled to have Jackie on the show to discuss a topic that affects so many of us – balancing motherhood with entrepreneurship. In this episode, Jackie shares her wisdom on the importance of setting boundaries, the art of saying no, and taking time for yourself. The conversation is filled with genuine insights and moments of laughter and understanding. Join us on the podcast as we delve into the complexities of balancing parenting with running your skincare business, and learn from Jackie’s experiences.

Watch Balancing Parenting with Running Your Skincare Business below:

Listen to the audio here:

Read the edited transcript below:

Rachael Pontillo:

Today, we have a topic that a lot of people will be able to relate to, because many of our audience members are aestheticians, health and wellness coaches, and people who are supporting other people who have skin issues; and I think many of them wear a lot of hats in life. And I know the three of us all wear a lot of hats in our lives. So we’re going talk about work-life balance. Is that even a thing? What does that look like, and what does that look like for each of us? I just want to have a very real conversation and get down to the nitty-gritty of how we each manage that in our lives so that hopefully those of you who are listening can relate to that and feel seen, heard, and supported.

Before we dive right in, Jackie, I would love it if you would give a quick introduction to our audience, just so that they can get a better sense of who you are and how you got involved with us here at the Nutritional Aesthetics® Alliance. And what are your thoughts on this topic?

Jackie Johnson:

Oh yeah, I love loaded questions like that. I’m Jackie Johnson. I am the owner and founder of Wildling Botanicals, Wildling Herbs, and Wildling Dreams Consulting. You’re probably like, man, you do a lot! But that’s a multifaceted part of who I am. Wildling Botanicals is my skin and haircare line that sprung off from my wellness journey of my hair falling out–70% of my hair–and having a head-to-toe rash. Wildling Herbs is the herbal supplements–that kind of ethnobotanist side of me, the apothecary side. That’s how I formulate and get to know plants and how their synergy works. And the consulting for Wildling Dreams happened because other brands and people in the holistic field, needed support. So those are just my brands, but I’ve worked in various backgrounds from retail to hospitality, and martial arts.

I also work with nonprofits, so I have had all of that backing in my career. And I feel like those places have prepared me for understanding products and services. Ultimately being a mom, I feel like I pull from every well of every experience on how to treat people, how to guide them, what products I want my kids to have, and which ones I do not want them to have. And then, ultimately, serving others is just every being of what I do. I tried to be quick because this is a great topic of balance. Since I just rattled off the array of things that I did and all the array of things in my businesses and background, you can see that I have to have some level of balance or some level of awareness of what my capacities are.

This is a really sensitive topic for me because I think I, as a mom or a solo parent, I’m always trying to figure out where I’m going to be and where my kids are going to be. What do I need to do with them? How can I be the best for my clients? What can I grow and formulate? I’m always trying to do that juggle, and I’ve landed on trying to be the best version of myself for all of the things that I do. I have to pause, and I have to be very mindful and aware. So pause, mindful, and aware is really how I view work-life balance.

Rachael Pontillo:

I love that. Pause. Mindful. Aware. That’s a great little mantra to help us see what that looks like. So one thing, Jackie, that I also know you do–you farm. You have an organic farm.

Jackie Johnson:


Rachael Pontillo:

More to do, right? More to add to the plate.

Jackie Johnson:

Yeah. And then even with that, I’ve scaled back on certain things I produce because it’s a family farm, and if I’m not able to put the right compost, and then have the right pH, and have everything be the hundred percent productivity I want and quality, I won’t grow it. Other people say, oh, I’ll grow it, or I’ll just kind of scrimp or pull things off. No, if it’s not the high quality I would put on my five-year-old daughter’s face, then I’m not putting it on anyone’s face. So with the farming stuff, I’ve had to say, “Nope, I’m not doing that product,” or it may be a seasonal thing, or I may never do it again because I’m not going to push for quantity and lose quality. And that affects your bottom line, right? Taking products that people like off the shelves? But that’s part of the balance. I don’t want to put out things that aren’t good quality.

Rachael Pontillo:

So I’m hearing that part of how you are finding balance is by really focusing on your top priorities and what you won’t compromise on. And being clear on that.

Jackie Johnson:

Oh, we have to be clear. It’s a day-to-day struggle or a conversation I have with myself. I don’t touch products and services if I’m not in the right mindset. Because I do believe in the energy that’s transferred. If I have love, light, and kindness coming out, I know that that will be the best energetic properties of anything I do. I won’t do it if I don’t have that to give. I’ve rescheduled consulting calls, or things with my kids, because if I can’t put that best self in, then I don’t want to do it at all. And I guess that’s something I struggled with in the past, but I’ve seen my best work happen when I am more aware of that.

Tara Swagger:

Jackie, what I’m noticing with your conversation and just talking about all the things you do, is that it resonates a lot with me because I have a lot of things on my plate. I’m sure it’s resonating with Rachael a lot too. But one of the things that I’m noticing is that–and I can see this from you– it’s easy, I think, in many ways, for people like us. We’re driven because we love it. And so this is a very interesting part because I think many people look at people like us and wonder how we do all these things. And I think a piece of this comes in where when you love what you do, it’s not a job, right?

Right. So you’re a mother, have a farm, do all these different things with business, and have this array of things in your background. People have told me, “Oh man, you’ve done all these things.” I did them because was really excited about them, because I like them, and because my focus was on fueling myself. And I can see that in you–that as you have fueled yourself, it cultivates a lot of stuff. But I’m certain you’ve had the experience where maybe you get overloaded. Even though you love all those things, you get overloaded. And then that’s how you learn more about reeling back and being like, “Okay, well, I love all these things, and I can still love them, but I can direct my energy differently.”

I think that that only comes with the experience obviously that you’ve had. And once you have children, that changes the perspective differently. I think it’s great when you say that you don’t want to do something because you’re not able to do it at a hundred percent. A unique thing that I think pertains to this topic is that when you decide what you want to do and how you want to do it, it helps cultivate balance. Because you’re saying, “I only want it this way.” And so I think directing that energy back to yourself and your personal choices is the most powerful thing. I think people in general, but women more often, outsource many of these things without realizing that they can do it because they choose to. It can be about them.

We oftentimes get pulled apart, like, we have to do for this and this and this and this. But when the focus comes back to “What do I want to produce,” while that seems and sounds kind of selfish sometimes, it’s really like putting the oxygen mask on yourself. That’s what it sounds like!

I think that’s a great piece to share about how the work-life balance works. Because like, it’s not always in balance, and we know that, and that’s unrealistic. But if we’re doing that oxygen mask for ourselves and focusing on what we choose, then it makes it easier. It sounds like you seem to have found that as being a key element there.

Jackie Johnson:

Oh, I completely agree. If I am pulling from my well and my water jug, you can’t pour something that’s not in there. You just can’t. There’s nothing in there. So if I don’t pause and I’m not mindful, and I’m not aware, then there’s nothing in there. I also don’t expect other people or my kids, out there trying to hustle and bustle and deplete themselves. That’s just not constructive. We saw it during COVID. We had our go time, and we really hit it hard, but we hit hard in a whole new way. And we had to scale back. The people that didn’t scale back got burnt out. A lot of them closed their businesses or ended up selling to conglomerates, and now they regret it because they realized that if they would’ve just paused and pulled back, they would still have their business, and their brand would still have its integrity.

But when you push so hard, and there’s nothing there, you lose your mind, your emotions, and your business. And clients see it too. People can tell when your product is not the same. We knew that brands changed ownership by using the products. We knew the ingredient list when we used it before. It isn’t the same consistency now. This fragrance isn’t the same. Why does this package look smaller? We’re smart individuals. Rachael knows as a formulator that people notice if you change the formula. That’s why you need all the special ingredients. Time, attention, education, and coaching.

If you take one of those ingredients out, it’s not going to work. People are going to notice and then that discredits your brand. If I’m always talking about loving kindness, and I’m depleted, snapping at people, and being rude to clients, they’re going to notice, right? So think about all those examples I just put out there for clients, your kids, and your resources.

If we don’t fill our water jug with love and kindness, reading, being mindful, walking, yoga, and doing our own self-care–if we don’t fill it up, then there is nothing to give. And that’ll affect every facet of your life, and every facet of your products and services. When you’re in board meetings, you’ll be snapping on podcasts; you’re going to have big bags under your eyes. You’ll look like you’re barely there when people see you. None of that’s worth it.

This is real stuff. I’ve seen people I love with the best brands, and I’ve seen them on lives, and I’m like, “Girl, you look like you need some sleep!”

And then they’ll say, “Yeah, I’ve been doing all these podcasts, and I’m just trying to do all these lives.”

And I said, “Girl, you need some sleep. You look terrible. You talk about self-care. You talk about self-love. You talk about self-awareness, and you’re depleted. And I could see that, and I love you so much, I don’t want to see you be depleted.”

I don’t expect anyone to do something that I wouldn’t do. I love myself. I’m going to put it in my awareness. I’m going to pause, be mindful, and aware, and I want everyone around me to do the same. I encourage that. And if that means you have to tell me no, or not right now, then great. That means you’re saying no, not never, and that’s great because I’m going to celebrate you. And I would hope that they would celebrate me in the same way.

Tara Swagger:

A lot of the things you’re talking about is about the energetic process too, because I think that’s what I notice most when I work with clients. This is a piece that no one is really addressing. And everything you said, like being mindful, yoga, taking the pause, all of these things aren’t holdable things. It’s the energetic value. It’s interesting you brought up the COVID part because I think up until COVID, the energy discussion was not even on the table. We know because we’re in this business, and I think when you’re a woman too, we’re more connected to energy a little bit easier than, you know, other people can be.

When I talk with clients, now I’m addressing the energetic value more so than I ever did before. Because, like you said, all the things you listed for your balance; it wasn’t like, “Oh, I need to have a few fewer hours of work or maybe be on fewer podcasts.” Energetically when you shift–and it sounds like that’s at the forefront of how you’re keeping that balance–it’s different. Everything changes, like how you say yes and how you say no, and how you can protect yourself is completely different. But it’s all coming from this energetic perspective. And I think that’s probably what people aren’t paying attention to enough when it comes to the work-life balance. And so I think those are very good points for people to pay attention to.

Rachael Pontillo:

Yeah. And I think that what’s really interesting is this being really mindful and aware of what the priorities are. What are the non-negotiables, what are the things that we love to do the most so that when we’re doing them, it’s not work. And then when we think about all of the other stuff that has to fall into place in order for us to be able to do that, that’s where that connection happens. Sometimes to be able to do some of the stuff takes us away from our families, or takes us away from something else that we have to do for our business to keep the wheels turning. It can be hard to prioritize. What do you say yes to and what can you say no to? Because sometimes there are points in your business where it might be a slower time of year. And the idea of slowing down means that you might not be making the money that you need to make during that time of year.

So I’m curious what you guys think about that. When it’s a slow time, when it’s maybe a lower point, and the dollars are not coming in as regularly as maybe they do during busier times of year, and we’re still feeling drained or tired. And maybe we start to worry about, “Oh my goodness, it’s really slow and I’m really trying the best I can, but the numbers are just not coming in. I don’t feel like I can slow down even though my body is telling me that it needs to.” How do you navigate times like that?

Jackie Johnson:

Oh, so that is the time when I know that my values are faith, family, and service. That’s what I live in service. Everything around my service of life. Just faith, faith, family, and service. And when those low times come, I build myself up spiritually. I start pulling from every resource that I can. I start sharpening my craft. I start pulling it in. I start reading old notes and formulations. I read client testimonials.

That’s how I recharge myself spiritually. I really get more into that, more intentional with my reading and honing in my craft. I schedule days to actually just rest, which was the hardest thing for me because I’m like, go, go, go. I’m like, nope, I’m going to push hard, and then I’m gonna schedule time to rest so I can let everything soak in. Like everything I learned, every mantra, I always let them soak in on those days. But yeah, if anyone’s saying that they’re making the same level of money all the time, and it’s just increasing all year, they’re lying. That’s not true.

Rachael Pontillo:

Especially in a business like ours where certain times of the year it slows down. Like when people go on summer vacation or after the “new year, new you” rush, and February, March it’s like, okay, who’s coming in for facials? Who’s booking coaching sessions? Who’s buying the new skincare? The summer phase hasn’t come yet. So I I’m glad you’re calling it out like that.

Jackie Johnson:

It’s just a lie. I worked at Walgreens, CVS, I worked P and L reports, I was training in stores, and training people. No industry is on this high rise and doesn’t have downtimes. So if you’re saying that, or a coach or a consultant is telling you that, they are lying. I’m just going to put that out there because I think, as entrepreneurs, we judge ourselves way too hard on stuff that is fake and false and phony. You’ll look at a business and think they’re doing so good, but they’re actually laying off people. So stop judging yourself on what you think is happening in someone else’s business. I consult people all the time and I look at their papers and sometimes it’s mortifying with how much money they poured out when they didn’t have anything coming in, and they are sustained on actual loans.

And I’m not talking about loans of $20,000. I’m talking about $250,000 and $300,000 loans, to push product lines that they never should have launched to begin with. This is real. We have to recharge or we’re not going to survive in our businesses. We’re going to get burnt out on our love, our passion, and our purpose. And we aren’t designed for this. That’s why, if we don’t have anything in our jug, it doesn’t make sense. I’m calling out liars. I don’t think I’ve ever said that on a podcast!

Rachael Pontillo:

I’m here for it!

Jackie Johnson:

But it’s true. Someone needs to debunk that baloney, and the coaches and consultants that are saying this baloney need to stop because it actually messes with women’s self-esteem. It messes with their passion. And it makes them feel like they cannot pause because they’re like, “If I don’t do this, I’m going to have all these bad things happen.”

So we have to be listening to podcasts like this, listening to people like Tara and Rachel, people who have lived it, and people in the industry. They’re telling us real things. If someone’s on telling you all the good things you want to hear, they’re probably not telling you the truth, because there are ups and downs in business.

If you don’t pause, you’ll get burnout. You have to. And yes, it’ll be hard. The money isn’t going to be there, but think about the money’s not gonna be there either if you’re sick. The money’s not gonna be there either if you’re depleted because you’re not going to be able to say yes to the great opportunities because you’re going to be burned out. You’re going to look terrible like my friend that I was like, “Girl, stop.” And she did stop by the way! She did stop. She took like two weeks off. She said “You told me I looked terrible and you’ve never said those kinds of words to me.”

And I said, “I’m in a different season of life. I’m going to add some truth with some love and I love you so much and I don’t want to see you get sick.” Because that’s what happens to women. Our hormones dip, our health definitely dips, and our families will suffer if we don’t say no. We have to.

Tara Swagger:

I love that you are being honest like that too because I think everybody can fall into these traps, but taking that downtime to recharge is the energy. The more we remind people that that needs to be in the front. You focus on spirituality, you focus on your faith, and your family. It’s so refreshing to hear that because we just did a podcast we were talking about Instagram and how the influencers are really marketing this idealistic look. You know, “I’m an aesthetician, but I’m in the hot tub with my boyfriend in Puerto Rico.”  We look at it that we’re like, “Well that’s wonderful,” but when you see that over and over again, there’s some kind of idea that you have to work so hard and so fast so you can get there.

And it’s not real. It’s part of that marketing scam where people are pushing this idea on women and entrepreneurs that it’s not natural, and those people aren’t showing the real part, which is how do you recharge? Maybe you’re recharging because you’re on vacation and that’s great, but with a lot of these people, that’s all you see. I’m like, “Are any of these girls doing facials? I mean what are they doing?” I’m glad you brought that up because that’s kind of what we’re talking about. I think people are really distracted by those posts and worry that they won’t be successful because they’re not at a place where they can go on vacation whenever they want.

They become very stressed out and then they’re probably depleting themselves even more. And so I love that you just said when it’s slow that you focus on those other things because I think that’s a really beautiful message for people to hear. That’s the number one thing we’re not hearing–people in our industry and women, in general. Even if you don’t have a business and you’re a stay-at-home mom, there are times when things aren’t as busy. So what are you doing with that time? Are you using it to really refill yourself, bring your frequency back up, and make sure that you feel energetically rejuvenated so that when it does get busy you can sustain that? I’m glad you shared that. And then I’m glad you, of course, you called out the people that are “perfect,” telling people the wrong things.

Jackie Johnson:

It’s really rubbing me badly. If you look at my photos on Instagram, when I post about my kids a lot of times, it looks like they don’t have lotion on. That’s because we’ve been in the river. Like I’m not going to say, “Oh, mommy’s taking an Instagram photo so you need to go and put some lotion and some oil, and I need to make sure like Jayla won’t have twigs in her hair!”

I just posted one a few days ago from our vacation. I said, “This is what the picture looks before you get the picture you want.” And I’m pulling her arm and my son, I’m pulling both of their arms, and we’re at the beach, and we looked ridiculous, and my daughter is laughing. My son’s all like, what? Three days later I posted what I actually got from the photo. But I think we are so to the point that everything has to be Instagram ready, Facebook ready, LinkedIn ready, that we’re, that’s not life.

Tara Swagger:

No, it’s not.

Jackie Johnson:

And then you’ve got kids scared to get their clothes dirty because “Mom’s gonna do a Facebook Live or a webinar, and if I’m in the camera and I don’t look picture perfect, I’ll get in trouble.” No one’s kid looks like that all the time.

I think just even with our own lives, if you are looking at someone’s social media, and you only see someone wine and dine a hundred percent all the time, they are putting that on to display. That is not reality. Not everybody feels amazing every day.

Tara Swagger:

And it’s common in the beauty industry. I think the people that are victimized by that more are women in the beauty industry. We’re the ones we’re often doing careers and being moms, a lot of us are motivated to have our own businesses. I also am a master gardener. I have a very large garden and I know what you mean about growing. Now I don’t utilize mine for products, but I know how many hours it takes to cultivate something. You don’t just wanna throw a bunch of stuff in there and then, you know, then it just goes to hell in a handbasket. I get that. My husband now works from home and he’s like, “Oh, I wanna help in the garden.”

I’m like, “Okay look, we can’t plant all this stuff becaues we don’t have the time.”  I think all of that messaging is really important because the reality is, we don’t always have the time, and then sometimes we do. But if we don’t have time, we can say “Ot’s okay. We don’t have the time.”

The beauty industry is really struggling, I think, and that’s something that’s bothering me, just like you said about the falsehoods that you’re getting through marketing and through consultants. I feel that way about the beauty industry because I think it’s such a false message that people just don’t think they can live up to this standard that doesn’t really exist. It’s not real.

When you own your own business–we all know this–it is a ton of blood, sweat, and tears. It’s a ton of lack of money, more so in the beginning, but it can happen throughout your career. That’s rough stuff to live through. Sometimes you look at these things on Instagram and all it does is look like people are on vacation. I’m like, wait a minute.

I’m older now. I’ve learned to take those vacations. I carve out that time. I’ve learned to hone my energy. I think it’s the most important thing. But I look at some of young people on Instagram, and it seems like they’re all on vacation all the time. I don’t know how real that is or not. If they’re all lucky enough to be able to do that, I guess I might have missed something about how how to do things differently in the beginning!

Jackie Johnson:

Nobody’s doing that!

Tara Swagger:

But ultimately I just don’t think that’s the 99% of everybody else. It’s hard because they’re taking over social media and that’s all you see, and it does seem like that’s the majority. But it’s definitely not.

Jackie Johnson:

That’s why it’s important to talk about these things. We know it’s not realistic. I see people all the time with the nonprofit I work with right now–I have to take meetings there–and I see people coming in to take pictures for their social media. I see them outside. I’m like, “Girl, you didn’t even come inside.” I see people all the time taking 15, 20, 50 pictures, and I have friends that talk about it. They ask me, “Why don’t you do all these social media posts when you’re gardening?”

Tara Swagger:

It’s because you don’t have time! Because you’re working!

That’s what I keep saying. I’m like, how do these people get every single client to let them photograph them on the table? When I see my clients, that’s not in my mind. I’m there to serve them. I’m there to treat them. I’m there to give them my best service. So I never really think to ask, “Hey, can I take photos of you during your service today?” So same thing, I always feel like, how are these people working if they have so much time to create all of this picture content with different people?

Jackie Johnson:

The realistic side is, I have clients that you’ll never know that I create products for, because of where they are in the industry. So when people ask me, “Why don’t you have a bunch of testimonials?” I’m like, “If you knew the people I was formulating for….”

Rachael Pontillo:

Well and you sign an NDA, you can’t say who you’re formulating for.

Jackie Johnson:

Right. My clients usually hire me because they had an issue and they need me to correct it. They’re not trying to broadcast to the industry that they have an issue and they need it corrected. So when I see stuff like that, it is weird to me because high-level clients are hiring consultants for you to be discree and confidential.

So that’s another thing like on balance; just because you don’t see something on my social media doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Just because someone is fake-posting on social media, that doesn’t mean it is happening, either. So, just be genuine! It’s okay not to post every single matcha tea that you’re having, and every time you make a latte. It’s okay that your kid has twigs in their hair. It’s okay if your shoe is scuffed that day. No, I’m not going to set up a tripod to take an extra 20 minutes to make sure that I’m gardening with the best light and angle so you can see it. That is not a good use of my time. It actually takes away from the quality of the products.

Rachael Pontillo:

And it takes so much longer when you’re trying to document the process. When I make a big batch of skincare for gifts or if I’m doing swag bags, or something like that, and “I’m like, ooh, I’m actually making product. This is a great time to create content for social media!” It takes me three times as long to make the batch right and bottle it because I’m trying to like, “Ooh, is this Instagram worthy? Is this the right angle?” And if I’m pouring it if I have to get it at the right moment and I grab one of my kids to hold the camera. It’s this whole production, and for what? How many people actually see it, and do they really care?

So, as I’m listening to this conversation, a couple of things are coming to mind for me that might sound controversial. Since we’re calling stuff out, I do feel the need to call out some of these themes in entrepreneurship that are inherently sexist.

And the first thing is a quote that I’m sure you guys have heard a million times, and I’ve probably even repeated it. And that is the quote that says that “Entrepreneurs work harder than most people are willing to so that they can live the way most people can’t.”

Let’s think about this, let’s break this down a little bit. It was probably some dude, some “bro-marketer” or “bro-entrepreneur” who coined that. I don’t know who originally coined that. So, if the person who originally said that is listening to this episode and they’re not some bro marketer dude, then my apologies. But I’m guessing that it was probably by one of these male entrepreneurs over the years.

You know, men can put in all this work, and all these hours, and you know, go on trips and do the stuff–if they have a wife at home taking care of the kids. But what happens when the wife wants to have her own business and wants to put in hours to grow something really special, but her husband has a full-time job, or maybe she’s a single mom with kids? That’s where there’s a discrepancy, and where we start to have a double standard because we can’t expect that we’re all going to be able to grow a business at the same rate, or that we’re all going to be able to put in as many hours as is necessary to grow something if we don’t all have the same level of support at home, whether that’s through a spouse, or through family, or neighbors, or anybody who’s helping you with your family.

I realize that I am speaking specifically about women who have families. I think a lot of our audience falls into that category. But people who don’t have families also have other obligations. They might have family members who need to be taken care of because maybe they’re elderly or because something is going on. So this really applies not just to moms who have kids and are trying to have a business, but it also applies to just anyone who does not have a full 24 hours a day to devote to growing a business.

I mean, nobody should be devoting 24 hours a day to the business, as we’ve talked about. But we’re so focused on this destination, this journey of, “Oh, if I do all this right, if I stay on this hamster wheel and I keep going, I keep going, I keep burning the candle at both ends, then finally I’m going to be able to be on that Caribbean vacation anytime I want. I’m gonna be able to take a river cruise in Europe. I’m gonna be able to go to Hawaii and take pictures and show everybody how successful I am once I get there.”

Okay. But think about it, how realistic is it that you’re actually going to get there if you are suffering? Because you’re not taking that time, you’re not taking those pauses, you’re not moving things to the back burner temporarily if you need to. You’re not being, what was it Jackie? Mindful…

Jackie Johnson:

And aware.

Rachael Pontillo:

Aware. And being really honest with yourself about how you’re feeling and what demands there are on you at that time. And as I said, I will call it out that it is mostly women that struggle with this because in most families, it is usually the woman that is taking care of the house and the kids and probably also is working. I’m not here to bash men or anything like that, but, but we have to support our women.

Jackie Johnson:

We do. We need to. Not everybody has that support in their household. I hear it on the calls now. “I need to check with my husband. We have the money, but I’m not sure he is going to let me use it,” or “I made the money, but I’m not sure he is going to let me pull that out.”

A lot of the big beauty brands are run by men. Small-scale skincare entrepreneurs tend to be more women. It depends on the side of the size of the brand. So I hear these conversations. So Rachael, I don’t think you’re being controversial. I mean women need real support. Some people are taking care of elderly people, family members, and they’re like, “Well I need to pause or stop on something because my mom is now sick.”

I’ve mapped out on a vision board what I want my life to look like. So when people are like, “Well you’re not doing all that, but I’m like, I vacation and go on about 12 to 15 trips a year. That’s a lot of trips. Now are you going to see it on Instagram? But some of it is three hours away with my kids because we’re going on a hike. Some of it is we just stayed out there instead of staying at our house on our acreage, we went to the river and we did stuff there. Or it’s going to see my pastor, whatever it is.

I think every journey is individualized and we need to stop reaching for this fantasy and reality tv. People say, why isn’t your brand bigger, Jackie? I’m like, because I don’t want it that big. I don’t want to give out my distribution. Yeah. I don’t want to give out my manufacturing. I want to know that every flower, from seed to flower, to the product–that it is up to my standard. And I do not believe someone will do it better than me. And if you can, contact me, I’ll hire you. Because I need some help over here!

In the meantime, I’m not going to do that. So these journeys and this fakeness, we have to stop. It just, it ruins us.

Tara Swagger:

That’s a great point too. When you say about how individualized it is. I think one of the greatest things about our industry is that there is no end game. Unless you’ve created this space where you say, “I want to make a million dollars, then I’m gonna walk away.” But when we’re passionate about what we do, this is never going away. We’re always going to be in some way, shape, or form creating and making, and it’s going to look different in different parts of our lives, which is why it’s individual.  And then the idea that you don’t want to expand is so fun to hear because I think people really create this idea that success comes from some big splashy thing.

What it sounds like to me, from what you just said, is 12 to 15 trips a year–that is a success. Success is where you can take your kids to the river. Success is when you have the things that you, as an individual want. So if those are the things you want, it sounds like you’ve created success in there. Whereas other people are creating these plans or putting these ideas in their minds of what success is, and it actually isn’t what they want, it’s what they think they’re supposed to have.

So we can keep doing all the things that we love and cultivate the life that we want, and it doesn’t necessarily look like we’re having this huge company that’s making a million dollars a year. People don’t realize what all of that comes with.

That doesn’t look like a lot of time with your kids. So if you’re okay with that, then that’s okay. But I don’t think most people want that really in their minds. They shoot for it, but what they really want is that time with their kids, even for small trips or time with them. I am exactly the same way. I don’t care about fancy cars in a big house. I love being an entrepreneur in my business because it gives me the ability to say no and choose my time. It gives me the ability to be with my family when we want to do a weekend away, I mark it off of my calendar, and I have control.

My husband has to take the time out of his job. He has to ask permission. I don’t want to ask permission from anybody to do what I want. So that’s the beauty. And to me, no one’s going to pay me enough. People have asked me over the years, “Why don’t you hire more aestheticians?” And I’m like, “I don’t want all of that amount of work.” I’ve grown my business, I’ve shrunk my business, I’ve grown it again. Now I own two businesses. So, it’s a lot like you, Jackie, where you ebb and flow. I know Rachael’s done the same thing based on what you want or what’s being offered to you at the time.

But all of it really comes down to this idea that success is really about what is fueling you and what’s making you feel good. You’re getting your why, and that’s really providing you with the success you want. I think people undervalue and underestimate what that really looks like and feels like. But it’s such a great point because scaling up isn’t always what you think it’s going to be.

Jackie Johnson:

I scaled back. With my wholesale orders, I crop it and package it, and it’s already sold. It’s sold before the seed hits the ground because I already know who’s going to buy it. That is a great security that I know in this quarter, this is who’s buying. They’ve already paid. Wholesaling; that’s my business model. I know who’s going to buy it before I even plant it, and it’s already paid for. And that’s great. That gives me that flexibility to be with my kids when they need me. I will drive 12 hours to go tell my daughter I love her. Their dad and I are divorced. My daughter’s like, “I want to see you.” So I got in my truck, and I got there. No one stopped me. I can do that for my daughter. I can do that for my son. She’s five. My son is 10.

I got into this game because I like to serve, but my family came before that, and I will serve my family first. Why would it matter if I have the money, but I still don’t have the time with the people that I was doing it for?

Think about that, ladies. I mean, if you’re doing it for time and you’re spending all your time on your business, why did you start the business, to begin with? Instead of you working your business, your business is working you. So stop being over-worked by your business.

Tara Swagger:


In my little world, it’s all interconnected because all these bits and pieces are not a linear situation. They’re not in compartments. It all exists at the same time, which makes it really difficult for most because it’s a lot to organize when it’s all one big thing. And I think certainly experience helps with that time, helps with that age helps with that. I think becoming a parent helps with that because when you’re driven by what you’re passionate about, and have children, you’re like, “Well, I want both of these things in my life.” I was married for 10 years and owned a business for a little bit longer than that. And then I had my kids, and there was no way I was giving up my business because I loved it.

But I knew I wanted to be with my kids, and I homeschooled. So like all of those things were very important to me. You have to create what the package looks like. And I think we’re lucky because when women get involved in this industry, whether it’s beauty or formulation or anything like that, or any small business or, idea that they want to grow, the beauty of it is that we can make the package look the way that we want. So That’s great.

Rachael Pontillo:

I love it. I think that we have just to remember when we’re thinking about work-life balance, it’s a good practice to take a glimpse into the future. Close your eyes and think about it.  Where do you want to be in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? And when you’re looking back at your life, what do you want to remember? What moments do you want to stand out to you? Do you want to remember the hustle and the hamster wheel and the Instagram and trying to keep up with everything, and managing all of the pieces, and keeping the plates spinning?

Or do you want to think back at the things that you were able to do with the people that you love, the things that you were able to do that you were truly passionate about, the things that you were able to create because it came from that spirit inside of you that was your calling to create something to put out into the world as your gift to the world. And if we’re focusing on the hamster wheel because we’re just like, “I have to keep going, keep going so I can get to the place and get to the thing and get to the goal and get to the six figures and the seven figures…” then we lose those moments.

Tara Swagger:


Rachael Pontillo:

And life’s too short. Totally. We don’t know how long any of us have. Not to sound dramatic, but it’s true. So yes, there are going to be times when you have a business, that it is going to feel like the hamster wheel. And there are going to be times where you’re at the top of the roller coaster, and then there’s going to be times when you’re at the bottom, slowly trying to climb your way back up.

I’m not here to say that it’s neat, pretty, predictable, and clean. Like yes, there are some things that once we get in a groove and we’ve maybe launched a product or a service, a few times; that we can predict what kind of revenue might come in from it. Sure. But if we only focus on the input with the goal of one output based on somebody else’s fantasy, that’s when I think we lose ourselves. And when we lose ourselves, then we can’t do anything well, and that’s not how you achieve the happiness that you’re trying to achieve by having a business in the first place.

Jackie Johnson:

I thank you guys for this, Rachael and Tara, for giving the platform to talk about real things and real issues. Most people are not this candid. So I really just thank you guys for pouring out your hearts and just really sharing and allowing me to share just so other women and women entrepreneurs don’t go down that road. They know that it’s just a trap, and I appreciate it.

Rachael Pontillo:

Well thank you so much for being here, Jackie. And where can people find you online if they want to connect with you and learn more from you?

Jackie Johnson:

I’m everywhere. I’m on all social media. Well, not TikTok, so I sure can’t say everywhere.

Rachael Pontillo:

That’s where I draw the line too.

Jackie Johnson

Yeah, I’m not dancing and pointing. I’m not that talented. The best way to find me be Wildling Botanicals on Facebook, Instagram, and on LinkedIn. So that’s more when I talk about more about that pausing, that mindfulness and awareness. So if you’re dealing with that on your journey, connect with me on Wildling Botanicals. I do all my personal correspondence, so you are talking to me directly.

Rachael Pontillo:

Awesome. Awesome. Jackie Johnson, thank you so much for being here with us. And Tara, thank you always for being my partner in crime here, at the Skin Wellness Pro Show. And thanks to everyone who joined us and listened or watched. And while you happen to be wherever you are, whether you’re on YouTube or iTunes, apple Podcasts, Spotify, we would so appreciate it if you would give us five-star rating, like us, share us, do all the things so that we can keep making more content like this for you.

We’d love to hear from you!

Leave a comment about aromatherapy in the spa!Thank you for joining us on this special episode of The Skin Wellness Pro Show with guest Jackie Johnson! We hope that our conversation has left you feeling informed, inspired, and connected. Our intention is to provide tools necessary to help you own your health and beauty business journey. While balancing motherhood with entrepreneurship may be difficult, it is possible when you take the time to set boundaries, understand yourself better, and believe in yourself. It may also be helpful to get support from family members or professionals when needed. After all, taking the time to nourish both relationships and ourselves is essential for a fulfilled life. Having talked about this incredible topic with Jackie – we urge you to use her advice and give yourself permission to prioritize self-care.

What are your thoughts on this episode? We’d love to read your comments below.

Finally, if you would like further support for your clients looking for guidance regarding their skin wellness and lifestyle issues; don’t forget to check out our CNAP Training Program!